culture

By Leonard Sweet

“This is an experience economy. The primary cultural currency is out there is basically images and experiences. When you have those two put together, the primary arena for accessing reality and truth is the arts.”

David Trotter and Spencer Burke interview Leonard Sweet.

Have you heard the one about the missionaries that go to China? They get off the plane and start off by saying, “Look at yourself, you dress funny. And, by the way, you sure do eat weird food. Besides that, we hate your music. And, you sure do have a language that is so hard to understand. But… let us tell you about Jesus and how much He loves you.” You’re laughing, right? We were too. Actually, we were laughing at ourselves. In a most pious fashion, one might say, “How ridiculous? Who would do such an insensitive thing?” Well, Leonard Sweet has a wonderful way of turning the mirror directly in the face of the Church. With a cultural shift that has been underway since the 1960′s, the Church is slowly coming to the realization that its language, dress, food, and music play a big role in the process of carrying out its mission. More than that, the Church’s attitude toward other people’s language, dress, food, and music is even more important. One of the main places in which our culture’s language can be seen is in the realm of arts. The arts in all their forms have become the prominent cultural language of our day. The question is, “Can the Church speak that language?” And, “Are there those among us who already speak that language?” Listen in as we hear about this new language…

TROTTER AND BURKE: Leonard, what transitions have you been seeing in terms of worship and the arts with the Church?

SWEET: The challenge of claiming the arts and liturgy is that you are not so much doing outside the box thing as outside the boat thinking. By the boat, I mean the Church. The modern Church, at least, did not allow the arts in – or only allowed a little leash for the arts. One has to almost go outside the boat or the Church in order to bring in the arts. That is a challenge. Some see it as a threat.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Along those lines, why would a church be willing to do that?

SWEET: Because that is where God is working. Well, for two reasons. One is that “for God so loved the world,” why can’t the Church? The second reason is that we may just be living in a time where God is more active in the world than in the Church. I think there is a double reason for doing it. The whole history of the Scripture and tradition is that God is going to be in this future. If God’s chosen vessels – the Israelites or a certain tribe or a church – are going to have a different mission than God’s mission, God raises up whomever God wills. God uses whomever God wills. I see God raising up and using people in the wider culture even more than I see God – in some cases – using God’s chosen instrument. Primarily, that is because the church has chosen to have a different mission than God’s mission. The mission has been self-preservation and self-service. Its own version of self-esteem. It hasn’t embraced God’s mission in the world.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Although generational language isn’t all that helpful, there seems to be an attraction in the postmodern world – or even 18-35 year olds – there is an attraction to the arts and worship as an experience rather than just knowledge.

SWEET: One of the languages that I am trying to use – I find that it is especially helpful for getting some people to think in a new way. I say this first, and then I backtrack from it. I am just going to make a generalization here. If you are over 30, you are an immigrant. If you are under 30, you are a native. I just say that I am over 30, and I am having Ellis Island experiences all the time. I have to learn new languages, and I have to learn new customs. My brain is needing to be re-wired. It is being re-wired all the time. I am an immigrant to a whole new world. I need to understand – as any immigrant does – that the people you learn the most from are the natives – for whom this new world is their first language. Then I immediately backtrack and let them know that I use the same language you do. This not a demographic thing – it is a psychographic thing. It is a mindset and a headset. I know some people who are 90 and are more native than some people who are 20.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Then, do you see arts and worship as their first language?

SWEET: Oh yes. This is their first language. It is how they experience the world. We are talking about multi-sensory, multi-media. A long time ago when I wrote FaithQuakes – in the early 90′s – I predicted that there would be one classical musical form with a future. Its best days would be in the future. And, that was opera. It is proving to be true. This last year there was a 64% increase in opera attendance. A lot of the increase was the natives. It is multi-media. It appeals to all the senses. In fact, the Portland Opera Company has even introduced scratch and sniff cards so that you can smell your way through the various arias and movements of the operas. Not just hear or see. This is an experience economy. The primary cultural currency is out there is basically images and experiences. When you have those two put together, the primary arena for accessing reality and truth is the arts. Jars of Clay expressed that powerfully in their song, “Art in Me.” That was in their first album where they basically invite God to make each one of us a masterful work of art. In this way, the postmodern world is much more medieval. The church was a major patron of the arts. We forget this – there was a time up until the 19th century that some of your major art dealers and traders were clergy. Then, something happened. Right now is a major renaissance for the arts in the church as we make worship multi-sensory and experiential. The closest that I come to a formula is EPIC. I call it an EPIC methodology for worship. It is an acronym. I chose EPIC, because it really means timeless. What is timeless worship? E stands for Experiential. P stands for Participatory. I stands for Image-based. C stands for Connected. In my upcoming book, Postmodern Pilgrims, I devote a chapter to each one of these. When you talk about experience and participation and image and connectivity, you are really talking about an art form. The modern world was so much more into the sciences. It even tried to make leadership into a science. I’m realizing more and more that everything out there in terms of leadership is much more an art form. We, as leaders, need to see ourselves as artists of the Spirit.

TROTTER AND BURKE: As you are talking about this renaissance, it seems as though our culture will be multi-lingual – not even bi-lingual – but multi-lingual.

SWEET: You are exactly right. But we are not in a place yet where artists can feel at home. Artists prize originality. The Church prizes cloning. Artists prize difference and differentiation. We prize uniformity. Artists prize freedom of expression. The Church prizes not that “for freedom Christ has set you free” – it is “for fear Christ has caused you to live.” (laughter) We are so bound and restricted and afraid. Artists take risks all the time. The Church is the ultimate safety first, risk free zone. People will come to church. They will get into their cars and barrel down the highway 50 to 60 miles an hour.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Where do you live? It is 70 to 80 here! (laughter)

SWEET: 70 to 80! They are two to three feet from other cars. They are two to three feet from strangers, trusting them not to bang into them. They are ten feet away from cars that are coming straight into them. We take huge life and death risks trusting strangers to get there. When we get to church, we immediately freeze up and play it safe. We trust strangers more to get to church than we do the Holy Spirit once we get there. It is appalling how the church has frozen itself in hugging harbors. People are looking for a harbor from the seas rather than being launched out onto the seas where people are drowning and dying.

TROTTER AND BURKE: In keeping with the language metaphor, there is power in language. There is control in words, commerce, and ideas. Is wrestling with fear, power, and control part of learning that native language? Are there some non-postmodern people – I’ll just use that term – being willing to learn a new language?

SWEET: Well, we have a Golden Rule mentality. Jesus came to repudiate the Golden Rule. We have Golden Rule churches that think, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” This is exactly the opposite of what Jesus came to proclaim. The irony is that the business world has moved away from the Golden Rule to what they call the Platinum Rule. “Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.” I think even Golden Rule admit that Jesus repudiated the Silver Rule – “Do unto others as they have done unto you” or even the Iron Rule, “Do unto others before they do unto you.” But the highest standard of all is in John 13, as Jesus explains the Platinum Rule, “You do unto others as I have done unto you.” We have a whole group of immigrants that say the Golden Rule is good enough. If this is good enough for me, it is good enough for you. No, I’m sorry. Jesus made it very clear in his farewell discourse. How did Christ do unto us? He laid down. The question is, “What are willing to lay down?” I think this is the very heart of what it means to be in mission to a new culture.

TROTTER AND BURKE: It seems as though Boomers really wanted their parents to lay aside the hymns and organs for more contemporary worship styles. But, now, some Boomers are more resistant to laying aside things for their children. So, it’s interesting that some of our most avid readers are those who are a little older and from more traditional churches. It is almost as though some traditional churches skipped the Boomers and know that this is their last chance in some ways.

SWEET: I think there is a certain entrenchment that takes place at a certain time in one’s life when one is absolutely over one’s head in everything. You are over your head in your job. You are over your head in raising kids and you are in debt. You have very little time to be creative. You have very little time to think outside the categories.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Almost survival…

SWEET: Yeah. I think there is a certain stubbornness in some Boomers who are resistance to change. I think that they are just stressed out and maxed out. 60, 70, and 80 year olds are fresher in their souls. They are more open to making transitions and thinking in new ways than those who are 35-55. You have to be a little tolerant and understanding from a pastoral standpoint. They just want what led them to Jesus to be replicated to their kids. It is a major problem.

TROTTER AND BURKE: What are some of those things that help people think through this transition?

SWEET: I think you have to root them in the Scriptures. I get real specific. I get real blunt. I can say this, because I am gone the next day. If you cannot look at your programs and ministries and point me to something you don’t get or don’t like, then you have a church that just exists for you and the church itself. You have a Golden Rule church. If you are not laying down money, time, treasure, and talents to support ministries that you don’t understand nor would you ever go to, then your days are numbered. I think that is one way. Just root them in the Scriptures. Do unto others as Christ has done to you. Peter says that he would lay down his life, but right after that he denied Jesus. He would lay down his life, but the little things tripped him up. He wouldn’t lay down his reputation to a little servant girl. But, he would lay down his life. We have people who would lay down their lives for the grandchildren, but they won’t lay down their music – the little things.

TROTTER AND BURKE: You may give that same message at different churches with various levels of acceptance. What are some commonalties among churches that are more accepting?

SWEET: That is a really good question. I have never thought of it like that before. Let me look back. One is that there is a sense that they are there because of what their ancestors did for them. Are they going to do for their day what was done for their ancestors? Almost every church that I have been to has had at least four moves. At least four different buildings. They are there on that site, because their ancestors took risks, made sacrifices, and took on challenges. If churches will begin to see that they are living off the blood, sweat, and tears of their ancestors, the leadership will ask if the current church will do the same for the future. I really think that a historical perspective and understanding that they live in a community of faith and seeing themselves as part of the stream of God’s work through time make a huge affect. I think the other thing is a sense of mission. If a church does not have a sense that they have a mission, it is almost hopeless. If they are just there to meet each other’s needs, then it is doomed. Jesus says that if you want to find your life, you must lose it. You live by dying. We have a lot of First Presbyterian and Last Methodist churches, but not too many Last churches. I’m finishing a book on Servis Shackleton, the explorer who wanted to be the first to cross the South Pole on foot. The greatest survival story in maritime history. Some call him the greatest leader who has ever lived. The book that tells his story is called “Endurance” by Carolyn Alexander. He is famous because he never lost a man. The Antarctic crushed his boat. These 28 men lived outside at the South Pole for 3 years (1914-1917). It is an unbelievable story. He was a great leader, but only when he was on a mission. When he was on a mission, he was totally focused. He couldn’t make a wrong decision. But, when he was not on a mission, his life fell apart. He couldn’t make a right decision. He was a disaster. God made every church for a mission. When we are on the mission and on course, God is going to be there. When we are off course and off that mission, we are on our own. We are then subject to all the drifts and winds of the world. So, a key component is that the church is on a mission by God. There is a psychological test called the MMPI. I hate these tests, but there is always one question that I never know how to answer. “Do you believe you are a special agent of the Lord?” You know that if you put yes, all the bells and whistles are going to go off. Delusions of grandeur and a Napoleonic complex. But what Christian should not put yes? What church should not put yes? We are called to be God’s hands and feet to the world. God has given each one of us a mission.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Even with that mission, you were talking about being in debt and over-worked. With those things, that mission just becomes really difficult to fit in.

SWEET: Well, I think families and marriages need a mission. If you can’t turn your job into a mission of service, then you better find another job. That is the native mentality. I want a vocation that can be a mission.

TROTTER AND BURKE: I wonder if churches get into that same mentality almost like a middle-aged family. In debt, in building programs, and the mission gets lost.

SWEET: That is a really good point. I had not really thought of it like that.

TROTTER AND BURKE: You know, those over 40 might think about mission in more of a traditional sense – going somewhere else geographically. I wonder if postmoderns are looking for someone to be willing to give up language, food, custom, or location?

SWEET: I was with a staff member from Mosaic recently, and he had a wonderful analogy. If you went to China and started off by saying, “I think you dress funny. You sure do eat funny food. I hate your music. You sure do have a language that is so hard to understand. But, let me tell you about Jesus and how much He loves you.” (laughter) Hello? That is exactly what immigrant do to natives all the time. “What is all this tattoo and piercing stuff? You just really look ugly. The color of your hair is just monstrous. Your music is really insulting and degrading. But, let me tell you about Jesus.” No, no, no. Part of it is being willing to love people on their own terms in their own language. It sounds so arrogant. But, the great French philosopher Voltaire said, “If you would speak with me, you must learn my language.” That is primarily what the Church has said, “If you want to speak with us, you must first learn our language.” No, we need to learn to speak the language in which God has placed us. That is what incarnational evangelism is all about. The language of the new emerging culture is the language of the arts and Spirit. The Church has sold out to a world where what was important was what you can see – not what was unseen. Now, we are living in a world where there is more than what meets the eye. The Matrix is the best commentary out there on 2 Corinthians 4:18. The real world is the unseen, spiritual world. The Church sold out to the visible, seen world. It is by might, it is by power – more than God’s Spirit.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Most great works of art that I connect with seem to tell this amazing story deep within it. As you walk up to it, you just scream, “What is it? What is it?”

SWEET: John Drury is an art critic and historian. He has this new book out where he takes great classics of Christian art and unpacks them. I am using it as devotional reading just to help me see the unseen. I have seen these great works, but I have never seen them before. I need to sit at someone’s feet that can mentor me in seeing the unseen. That is what the arts do – they help us see the unseen. They teach us that there is so much more than what meets the eye. They help us experience life with all of our senses. That is what natives want to do. They want to have total-experience worship. Our worship is so one-dimensional. The arts are the only way that we can restore the multi-dimensional and multi-sensory. Super String Theory says to forget about four dimensions. This theory says that there are 10 to 11 dimensions to reality. There are so many dimensions to reality that we don’t even know exist. The arts are the way in which we become more open to experiencing new dimensions.

TROTTER AND BURKE: There is a sense that music has been given the right to touch our soul or heart. Instead of just a cognitive teaching, there is a sense that music and art touch the emotions.

SWEET: To reach natives, if you don’t reach their stereo, you don’t reach their soul. But there is also a reason for that. This is again complexity theory and super string physics. If you ask the physicist at the Center for Non-Linear Studies in Santa Fe, “What is matter basically comprised of?” Let me tell you, when artists hear this, they get it. When we hear it, we are clueless. This is what the basic building blocks of the universe are. This is their phrase – vibrating membranes of energy. They are telling us a couple of things. First of all, that matter is even spirit. Einstein agreed with that. Einstein was called the most important person in the 20th century. He has been important in every field but the church. The church has not even entered the Einstein world yet, and we are already post-Einstein. When you hear that matter is basically vibrating loops, they are saying that anything that vibrates gives out frequencies. Anything that gives off frequencies creates sound. What they are really saying is that matter – this is really Biblical theology from Genesis to Revelation – we are at root an unrepeatable, irreplaceable song. The Bible begins with, “And God said, let there be light!” Sound creates sight. The modern world has been so focused on vision, we have forgotten about vibration. Vibration comes before vision. Over and over again in Scripture, it is sound that creates sight. At Pentecost, what was the first manifestation of the Holy Spirit? The rushing mighty wind and then sight through the flames of fire. So, when you are dealing with music, you are working with the basic building blocks of the universe. You build the body of Christ from the sound up. It is not that we make music, music makes us. When Lucifer fell, he fell into the choir loft and has been at work ever since. Because where God is most at work, the devil is most at work too. The devil knows that music is where God is most at work, because that is basically the building blocks of the universe.

TROTTER AND BURKE: Isn’t it interesting that the twist on John – “in the beginning was the Word” – somehow we made it a statement connected to Gutenberg with the printing press.

SWEET: Hello? If you look ‘logos’ and it also means sound. It would be better to say, “in the beginning was the sound.” The sound became sight. Words become flesh. That is why in the Hebrew tradition, you always chant the torah. You never say the torah, you chant it. Whenever Leonard Bernstein conducted his mass, he would turn around to the audience and say, “We get this wrong. God did not say, let there be light. The real Hebrew meaning is God sang, let there be light.” Then, he would give them a little sample of God’s song. Dun, dun, dun, duuu…as only Bernstein could do